About this Show

Up W Steve Kornacki

News/Business. (2013) New.

NETWORK

DURATION
02:01:00

RATING

SCANNED IN
San Francisco, CA, USA

SOURCE
Comcast Cable

TUNER
Channel v787

VIDEO CODEC
mpeg2video

AUDIO CODEC
ac3

PIXEL WIDTH
1920

PIXEL HEIGHT
1080

TOPIC FREQUENCY

Us 14, Abc 11, Hilary 7, Bjorn 6, Angie 6, Obama Administration 6, Garth 6, Irs 6, Clinton 5, Bob Woodward 5, Obama 4, Ap 4, Claire Mccaskill 4, Jon Stewart 4, Jonathan Karl 4, Washington 4, Nixon 4, Bob Herbert 3, Burton 3, Janelle Bowie 3,
Borrow a DVD
of this show
  MSNBC    Up W Steve Kornacki    News/Business.  (2013) New.  

    May 18, 2013
    5:00 - 7:01am PDT  

5:00am
ask your doctor if including advair could help improve your lung function. [ male announcer ] advair diskus fluticasone propionate and salmeterol inhalation powder. get your first prescription free and save on refills at advaircopd.com. . good morning from new york. i'm steve kornacki. federal investigators are looking into the cause of last night's head on train collision which injured 60 people near fairfield, connecticut. orb is the even money favorite in the morning line for this morning's preakness stakes. if the horse withins he'll be one step away for claiming the triple crown. if you're looking for some value let me give you my pick, we'll take charge with the number seven horse. i'm joined by joan walsh the
5:01am
author of "what's the matter with white people." also bob herbert. janelle bowie and joy reid. if you read any headlines or watched any cable news this week you know that this was the week that a sudden wave of scandals three of them rocked the obama administration all at once. >> the obama administration is under fire. >> president obama is fending off incoming fire. >> the dangerous narrative. >> plaguing the white house. >> hard to follow. >> he's drowning in it. >> so egregious. >> who is going to jail. >> in an impeachable offense. >> i've never seen anything like this in the past except in the nixon years. >> doesn't anyone remember the nixon administration. >> here's the catch. all of that white house scandal
5:02am
hysteria stems from a news report that was completely discredited in the middle of the week. it's probably isn't quite the story you've been hearing. it starts last friday not the friday yesterday but the one before that. that's when abc news trumpeted an exclusive story that purported to reveal emails proving the white house had meddled with the benghazi talking points last september, had altered them in a way that protected the state department. >> i have obtained 12 different versions of those talking points that shows they were dramatically edited by the administration. take a look at two of them. what was taken out? all references to al qaeda and all references to cia warnings before the attack about the terror threat in benghazi. >> there it was. the major turning point in the benghazi saga. for months republicans had insisted the white house was trying to cover up serious failures related to the attack and had no evidence. now with this abc report well kind of looked like the press had maybe been duped.
5:03am
maybe the administration had been looking out for its image and preoccupied with politics. in context what happened next wasn't surprising. hours after abc's report about the benghazi emails news broke that irs had inappropriately scrutinized tea party and other groups seeking tax exempt status ahead of the 2012 elections. republicans pounced. it was a nixonian plot. any other week the media would have taken these charges with a giant grain of salt. but on the heels of the benghazi emails more complicated. monday the associated press announced the justice department had secretly obtained two months worth of reporters phone lotion as part of a leak investigation. now the narrative was irrestible. strub ta scrub talking points. administration hell bent on abusing its power to stay in power. the white house was denying it had anything to do with the irs
5:04am
or doj. the references to water beat the and second term curses and mid-term elections fallout followed. which brings us to tuesday when the abc report that set off this whole chain of events the report that threw the political world into all scandal all the time crumbled apart. cnn jake tapper obtained one of the reports. it turned out abc had never actually seen the emails. all they gotten were notes from their unnamed sources on revisions to the benghazi talking points. the upshot as tapper explained the notes abc were provided with made it appear the white house was primarily concerned with state department's desire to remove references and warnings about specific terrorist groups so as not to bring criticism to the department. also appears likely the notes provided to abc came from
5:05am
republicans something that cbs news reported on thursday night. which leaves us in a much more complicated place. benghazi scandal which was not a scandal in the first place has blown up. the irs and doj stories raise all sorts of fascinating and controversial questions but the framing that they were presented with at the start of the week, white house scandals now seems way too simplistic. so, i want to give credit first of all, the first person i saw to put it together like that and said the triggering event on abc was jonathan shay in the "new york" magazine. the more i think about it that's what happened this week. you had a very complicated and still unfolding story involving the irs, the news overnight, in fact, was that the irs had actually briefed somebody at the treasury department last year and i think it was june of 2012 and basically said the irs was going to be looking into this. there was going to be an audit
5:06am
looking at potentially targeting conservative groups. nothing was found. this is a routine thing that happens once a year. that's the news overnight. this is an unfolding story. but i i think it would have been presented more as the unfolding complicated sort of agency based story as it appears fob it hadn't been for this abc report two fridays ago on benghazi. >> it reminds me of shark week. when i used to work in local news. one person gets bitten by a shark. then a week later another one is bitten by a shark. then everybody is getting bitten by sharks. i totally agree with you the triggering event was the abc report. if you think about it when benghazi was a fox news story there was no incentive for the rest of the media to jump on it. a mainstream media outlet needed to pick it up. that was the triggering event to get other news outlets. so i had this question that no
5:07am
one in the media except maybe jonathan shay or yourself not many people asking who in the house of representatives or the senate the committees who got the emails in february and in march, who presented those notes to jonathan karl. did they present them to jonathan karl in a false way or did he just misinterpret what he gave them. that's an important story the media hasn't shown any interest in. >> it was said is somebody going to be fired. in the last scandal season in 1998 someone who worked for dan burton, david bossy was fired for doctoring hubble's testimony and editing things to make everything look worse than what it was. this is what happened here. somebody went in and from a white house e-mail and put in a reference to protecting the state department that did not exist opportune original e-mail. i think we have to ask about how
5:08am
staffers and i think we do have to ask about abc, because these emails were presented in quotation marks. if you put something in quotation marks somebody said it. >> i love that you mentioned the 1998 scandal. i want to show this. i think it's interesting to look back 15 years ago. dan burton was chairman of the oversight of the house. looking into clinton scandals. this was about campaign stuff. when this happened, when selectively edited stuff blew up in the republicans this is what it looked like on the news. this is the controversy. >> among the president's republican opponents disarray. today indiana congressman dan burton fired his top investigator david bossy. burton is under fire for releasing hubble's taped telephone conversations from prison recordings appeared selectively edited to damage the white house. today in a letter of apology, burton wrote mistakes and omissions were made but there was never any intent to deceive
5:09am
anyone. >> the interesting thing to me about that is look the republicans were clearly out to get the clintons in the 1990ed. when this came to light that burton and his committee released these tapes there was outrage arose the aisle. >> what's funny, if you're looking at what other republicans are saying there's this divide where you have republican leadership trying to rein in other republicans saying we can't take this too crazy because we might alienate americans. part of the reason why you haven't seen much bipartisan outrage over the potentially dock toward emails there's a large chunk of republicans who just want to see scandals. they believe obama is, you know, some sort of marxist tyrant and there are scandals and they will find them. >> in the media we do need to look into it. think about it. these weren't just pedalled to
5:10am
jonathan karl at abc they were pedalled to "the weekly standard" and cbs. somebody deliberately wanted to have that information out there and if you think about notes being what were give jones to jonathan karl when the white house gave the emails or allowed the emails to be reviewed by the two select meets, they didn't give them the emails. they said you can come in and spend as much time as you want reading the emails and take as many notes as you want. take your notes out. if those notes came out either somebody is not a good note taker and inserted state department where it didn't belong or those dock toward notes deliberately were peddled to news organizations. to peddle news to reputable news organizations that's false. >> agree benghazi is a big part of this crazed frenzy. but i push back a little bit on the idea that the irs story wouldn't be an enormous story on its own because when it broke
5:11am
the only thing that you were hearing was that, you know, the irs is targeting conservative and tea party groups. and that would cause an explosion in media and political circles on its face. >> i agree. i think it's the framing that there was almost this assumption that this was a white house scandal as opposed -- >> exactly. >> -- to an irs scandal. >> i think it would have been taken that want way even without benghazi when the story first broke because assumption would have been on the right hey here's obama targeting his enemies without make being any distinction between the administration and the irs. that's what happens, i think, in this 24 hour news cycle when everything is breaking news and, you know, it starts out as though it's a scandal. >> it certainly would have been a scandal on the right and certainly would have been framed by right-wing media as big brother, big bad obama targeting his enemies but i don't think
5:12am
the mainstream media would have jumped on it quite the same way. they would have jumped on it but not fit into this framework of oh, first we discover the white house actually was intervening and covering up for the state department on benghazi. and then at the end of the day we find out that the white house is targeting utes enemies. without that initial -- >> there's a real, a specific moment that jumped out at me this week when i think it became sort of a cause at least briefly we'll see what happens, a cause for the nonright-wing media, involving jon stewart. we'll show it when we come back. and many birthdays later, still looks amazing. thanks to the trusted performance of olay. what makes a sleep number what makes a sleep number store different? you walk into a conventional mattress store, it's really not about you. they say, "well, if you wanted a firm bed you can lie on one of those. if you want a soft bed you can lie on one of those." we provide the exact individualization that
5:13am
your body needs. the sleep number memorial day sale. not just ordinary beds on sale, but the bed that can change your life on sale. the sleep number bed. this is your body there. you can see a little more pressure in the hips. take it up one notch. oh gosh, yes. you get that moment where you go, "oh yeah" ... oh, yeah! ... and it's perfect. they had no idea that when they came to a sleep number store, we were going to diagnose their problems and help them sleep better. and right now save on the closeout of our classic special edition bed set. just $1299-a savings of $600-and discover the only memory foam bed with dual air adjustability. once you experience it, there's no going back. wow. don't invest in a mattress until you find your sleep number setting. sale ends june 2nd. only at the sleep number store. sleep number. comfort individualized if you have the right tools. ryobi has over 50 products that work off of one 18 volt battery. and with new improved lithium and lithium plus batteries, you'll get a whole lot more done in less time.
5:14am
plus, they'll improve the performance of every 18 volt tool we've ever made. now that's getting more power for your money. ryobi one plus. the one system that delivers more. available only in one place. the home depot. now pick up a special buy lithium ion drill kit for just $79. the day building a play set begins with a surprise twinge of back pain... and a choice. take up to 4 advil in a day or 2 aleve for all day relief. [ male announcer ] that's handy.
5:15am
. so, on the right, you know, i've been basically looking from the day president obama was sworn in in january, 2009 when will the articles of impeachment
5:16am
about introduced by a republican. the issue is that this week this became something that the mainstream media was following as this was white house scandal for the mainstream media. house of representatives it made that jump from republicans thinking everything is an impeachable offense to making the mainstream media focus this on a series of white house scandals. to pinpoint a moment we have the abc stuff last friday but i think what it was monday night when jon stewart went on the air. >> in a few short weeks you've managed to show when the government wants to do good things your managerial competence falls between david brent and a cat chasing a laser pointer, but when government wants to flex its muscles [ bleep ] you're the ironman. you know what? i'm sorry. i'm sorry. i'm overreacting. i still believe, i really do, that good government has the power to improve people's lives
5:17am
and that the people have the power to restrain its excesses. i forget that sometimes and i'm sorry. it's going to be okay. and our form of government is bigger than just these issues. this storm will pass. really? right now? we're just getting this into the situation room calling it a quote massive and unprecedented intrusion the associated press now saying the justice department secretly obtained two months of phone records of its reporters and editors. >> mother [bleep] >> that was the short version. it went on for ten minutes. there was a lot in there in what he said but what was most notable to me watching my twitter stream coming alive with mainstream media people at 11:15 on monday night continuing over to tuesday morning jon stewart
5:18am
validated the obama scandals. >> it was funny all of a sudden jon stewart became the favorite comedian of every right-winger they were waiting for mainstream media to see through obama and see him for the evil he is. they are excited to see somebody who is culturally against them and jump on to their band wagon. people in media craved that affirmation from the right you're not biassed you are independent and i think that there is a little bit of that even in the comedy world where it's assumed comedians are always on the left. they are always for the left and always making fun of the right. so the right is desperate to have the culture turn on obama. the people turn on obama. they can't stand the fact that they are alone on that. >> it's a problem when all of us see all politics all the time. some of us and if you consider yourself mainstream you need to step back and look at the facts of the situation. i mean i don't think benghazi is
5:19am
a scandal at all. it's a terrible tragedy but i don't think it was a scandal. i think with the irs i think it is a scandal. the irs for what appears to be really dopey reasons having nothing to do with the administration at least at this point as far as we know the irs was in fact targeting conservative and tea party type groups, and i think that the ap scandal is an outlandish continuing scandal that has been undercover for the longest time by the mainstream media. this has been an administration following on the prior administration that has done everything in its power to intimidate the free flow -- those who are involved in the free flow of information in our democracy and that is a huge and continuing scandal. >> right. the fact that the focus is on these obama scandals, takes the focus away from these actual like ongoing problems. what you want, you want mainstream media to cover the
5:20am
fact that the obama administration is remarkably hostile to whistle blowers and other folks who leak information from the government. lumping it in is just another scandal, i think really takes away from -- >> it does. >> -- an ongoing problem. >> it seems like it's everything else. >> it will fadeaway. when benghazi leaves the front page, when the irs scandal becomes i think recognized correctly as an agency scandal people will forget about the ap stuff and a year from now we'll hear about a whistle blower that's toss into jail. >> the media plays into this too. media's own self-hatred. on one level there is something unseemly to even to me as a member of the media when people who haven't cared about other whistle blowers in any other kind of civil liberty questions about this administration only care about the ap scandal because it hit the press.
5:21am
that's one thing. then you have this compensation by some people in the media maybe we aren't going to talk about this all the time because did they follow their own guidelines. it's complicated what they did in my mind was wrong and complicated but there's a level that you really need to get into the weed and understand and people just kind of chat it up. >> i would say i agree. to me and we'll talk about this on today's show and tomorrow's show and get into the specifics when we talk about the irs and doj. i look at irs what's happening right now this is what correctional oversight is for. you have an agency that raised all these questions and i'm glad they are holding hearings. i want to talk about that and the doj issues that's been building for years. i want to get back to the issue why the media decides this is a scandal and how we cover it going forward after this. it appears it's an agent of good.
5:22am
♪ [ agent smith ] ge software connects patients to nurses to the right machines while dramatically reducing waiting time. [ telephone ringing ] now a waiting room is just a room. [ static warbles ] [ telephone ringing ] now a waiting room is just a room. for sein a whole new way. for seeing what cash is coming in and going out... so you can understand every angle of your cash flow- last week, this month, and even next year. for seeing your business's cash flow like never before, introducing cash flow insight powered by pnc cfo. a suite of online tools that lets you turn insight into action. a body at rest tends to stay at rest... while a body in motion tends to stay in motion. staying active can actually ease arthritis symptoms.
5:23am
but if you have arthritis, staying active can be difficult. prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain so your body can stay in motion. because just one 200mg celebrex a day can provide 24 hour relief for many with arthritis pain and inflammation. plus, in clinical studies, celebrex is proven to improve daily physical function so moving is easier. celebrex can be taken with or without food. and it's not a narcotic. you and your doctor should balance the benefits with the risks. all prescription nsaids, like celebrex, ibuprofen, naproxen and meloxicam have the same cardiovascular warning. they all may increase the chance of heart attack or stroke, which can lead to death. this chance increases if you have heart disease or risk factors such as high blood pressure or when nsaids are taken for long periods. nsaids, like celebrex, increase the chance of serious skin or allergic reactions or stomach and intestine problems, such as bleeding and ulcers, which can occur without warning and may cause death. patients also taking aspirin and the elderly are at increased risk for stomach bleeding and ulcers. don't take celebrex
5:24am
if you have bleeding in the stomach or intestine, or had an asthma attack, hives, other allergies to aspirin, nsaids or sulfonamides. get help right away if you have swelling of the face or throat, or trouble breathing. tell your doctor your medical history. and find an arthritis treatment for you. visit celebrex.com and ask your doctor about celebrex. for a body in motion. you made an interesting
5:25am
point in the last segment. it's like work the refs in the basketball game. hoping to get the foul call at the last moment. in interpreting everything as white house scandals i do wonder if there's an element of that and i'm wondering as your experience as a journalist is that a trap you found yourself falling into where you're feeling pressure from the other side or against the republicans or an interest group or anybody is putting the pressure on you, you're so biassed to the other side does it mess with your head a little bit? >> i have not felt that pressure because i've never cared. it goes a certain way. there's folks in the media who feel that way who are left or liberal orring frommive they have to at some time give a shot
5:26am
out to the other side i'm not just this crazed ideolog. you can't lump all the mainstream press together. people and outlets function differently. the times has been, for example, very good on all of these issues as they've unfolded. >> also if you ever dealt with communication staff of this white house, previous white houses, i've dealt with rnc communication they will try to brow beat you in doing stories. it's the function of the press where i've worked on the other side. you want to say no you don't want to do that story it's not real or take down stories that will hurt your side. there's a game that goes on between political communication staff and the media and it's constant. there's complaining about headlines. complaining to news organization about coverage period. it's not just this administration, it's all administrations. they don't want negative stories out. >> it's the nature of power.
5:27am
>> it's bipartisan. >> the other thing i've noticed, it's an interesting example to follow is bob woodward. bob woodward got into a couple of high-profile dust ups with the white house. he took down president nixon and conservatives saw him for years as part of the liberal media. i've seen him in the last few months reassessed by the right and the right holds up bob woodward as this is now a brave journalists he's getting accolades from corners he never did. this is bob woodward sake there may be a watergate panel out here. >> i hate to show this is one of the documents with the editing that one of the people in the state department said oh, let's not let these things out, and i have to go back 40 years to watergate when nixon put out his edited transcripts of the
5:28am
conversations and he personally went through them and said oh, let's not tell this, let's not show this. i would not dismiss benghazi. >> something more complicated is going on with bob woodward. that's embarrassing. he embarrassed himself this week. he embarrassed himself a couple of months ago when he picked a fight over what was supposed to happen with the sequester and insisted his version was right and peddled the line that he had been intimidated by somebody in the white house when they said merely and this is a good example of what you were saying, joy, i think you'll regret doing that story. they said that in the sense your story is wrong and you're going to regret it. maybe they were messing with him. his story was wrong so they were right. but he went out to fox and he went out to the media and said these chicago thugs, it was like they were going to come break my leg physician i did the story. >> very, very weird. >> with him you have a celebrity
5:29am
journalist because of watergate became accustomed to access to these white houses. maybe his access isn't what it used to be and he has an axe to grind. >> there's a familiar frame here that like people, media figures are used to white house scandal and so i think it's sort of -- all these things come together and it fit. people are lazy like most people do what they know and white house scandal is something they know. i think that's also why you're seeing the watergate and nixon and iran/contra comparisons these are things people are familiar with. especially iran/contra there are genuine constitutional issues there that don't exist but maybe the ap scandal. >> the watergate, the people know watergate scandal.
5:30am
40 years ago when the hearings took place. obviously woodward lived it and knows it better than me. to remind people talk about nixon and watergate this was a president directly involved, we're going to audit herbert humphrey. anybody who runs against me -- that's hugely different anything so far. >> and the revolutionizing. it's enough to make you forget that you're flying five hundred miles an hour on a chair that just became a bed. you see, we're doing some changing of our own. ah, we can talk about it later. we're putting the wonder back into air travel, one innovation at a time. the new american is arriving.
5:31am
5:32am
[ whirring ] [ dog barks ] i want to treat more dogs. ♪
5:33am
our business needs more cases. [ male announcer ] where do you want to take your business? i need help selling art. [ male announcer ] from broadband to web hosting to mobile apps, small business solutions from at&t have the security you need to get you there. call us. we can show you how at&t solutions can help you do what you do... even better. ♪ . joy was about to say. >> you were talking about the watergate. it's great you brought it up. these are questions of scale. nixon audited his political enemies. if you want to talk about something that's comparable to that, you had the republican lawmakers demanding naacp strip
5:34am
it's 501(c)3 because of their speech. it's what nixon did where you have a private contractor hired in 2006 that looked at taxpayers in 20 states including asking political affiliation. things like that never became political scandals. in this case people applying for a special dispensation for the tax code. even though they are clearly political p.a.c.s. that has to be a part of the investigation but won't be because congress is grandstanding to take down the president. >> there's a category here you wouldn't call it scandal, you call it bureaucratic problem, i'm not coming up with names. i'm sorry. think about these stories. 1992, i remember during the campaign in '92 it came out somebody at the state department had looked at bill clinton's passport files. in 2008 there was a similar story. bipartisan. mccain, obama, hilary, somebody in the state department was looking at it. it didn't go the white house.
5:35am
it was bad. shouldn't have happened. it raised some questions. it deserved coverage. to automatically take that, these were not white house scandals. these were bureaucratic situations. >> i'm a democratic, i admit it. democratic presidents are held to a different standard. early this week i thought i would have a major break down. a major figure tweeted welcome to tea 90s. oh, we're going to go back into the clinton scandal. it was written that this is going to, benghazi will hurt hillary clinton because she has a credibility problem because of unproven an unfounded allegations of the 'he 90s because the media said she has a credibility problem. i've talked to people in our business who were around back in the clinton days who are now a shamed of the way they pursued those scandals who now look at him as a terrific president and forget, you know, glass ceilings
5:36am
and some great things he did and caught up in this freezy and see there are similarities. they are not the same but there are similarities. as joy says when bush or someone in the white house used the irs against green peace, against black churches, episcopal church in l.a., it wasn't a bush scandal. i don't know if it's the people just expected less of bush or -- >> bigotry of low expectations. >> some of it is the general cult of the presidency that's grown over the last four years that even in journalism there's lots of people -- we saw this with the sequester and constant calls of bahama to lead. if he can lead it will solve these problems. there's this view anything that happens in the federal government the president has something to do with it and that's not true. it prevents people from seeing
5:37am
the extent of which bureaucracies have their own force. >> also the media have changed. i want used to be that folks would dig, dig, dig, get the story and then the scandal would emerge. it's reversed. what happens now there's a headline out there. this is the scandal. then you dig, dig, dig to see what really happened. and, you know, most of the time you end up rolling it back. >> while using the word scandal. >> there's a backward -- >> is there some way you could, like with the talking, could distinguish between scandal and scandal italics. >> scandal, the word. >> my little bureaucratic situation thing you just expressed it much better than me. i want to thank joan walsh. she just perfectly teased what's coming up next what the republican obsession with benghazi is really all about. after this.
5:38am
for over 125 years we've been bringing people together. today we'd like people to come together on something that concerns all of us...obesity. and as the nations leading beverage company we can play an important role. that includes continually providing more options. giving people easy ways to help make informed choices. and offering portion controlled versions of our most popular drinks. it also means working with our industry to voluntarily change whats offered in schools. but beating obesity will take continued action by all of us. based on one simple common sense fact, all calories count. and if you eat and drink more calories then you burn off you'll gain weight. that goes for coca cola and everything else with calories. finding a solution will take all of us. but at coca cola we know when people come together good things happen to learn more visit coke.com/comingtogether
5:39am
plays a key role throughout our lives. one a day men's 50+ is a complete multivitamin designed for men's health concerns as we age. it has 7 antioxidants to support cell health. one a day men's 50+. it has 7 antioxidants to support cell health. ♪ i' it has 7 antioxidants to support cell health. 'm a hard, hard ♪ i'm a hard, hard worker and i'm working every day. ♪ ♪ i'm a hard, hard worker and i'm saving all my pay. ♪ ♪ if i ever get some money put away, ♪ ♪ i'm going to take it all out and celebrate. ♪
5:40am
♪ i'm a hard, hard worker... ♪ membership rallied millions of us on small business saturday to make shopping small, huge. this is what membership is. this is what membership does. available out there. i knew devry university would give me the skills that i needed to make one of those tech jobs mine. we teach cutting-edge engineering technology, computer information systems, networking and communications management -- the things that our students need to know in the world today. our country needs more college grads to help fill all the open technology jobs. to help meet that need, here at devry university, we're offering $4 million dollars in tech scholarships for qualified new students. learn more at devry.edu.
5:41am
old sometimes. there's the fact i now go to sleep at 8:00 p.m. on weekends. i caught myself more than on one occasion using the expression that i'm old enough to remember -- that i'm old enough -- you know what guys? i'm sorry. we'll take a break and try this again. i'm sorry. hey, look!k! a a shooting s st! mamake a wish!h! i wish w we could lie e here forevever. i wish thihis test dririve was , so we e could headad back to thehe dealershihip. [ [ male annououncer ] it's p practicallyly yours. testst dri! bubut we stillll need your s signature.. vovolkswagen s sign then d drie is back.k.
5:42am
and d it's neverer been easisir to get a j jetta. that's t the power of german n engineerining. get $0 dowown, $0 due at t signing, $ $0 dep, anand $0 firstst month's p pt on any n new volkswawagen. visit vwdedealer.com t today. on any n new volkswawagen. so you can capture your receipts, ink for all business purchases. and manage them online with jot, the latest app from ink. so you can spend less time doing paperwork. and more time doing paperwork. ink from chase. so you can. hodoes your dog food have?s 30? 20? new purina one beyond has 9. the simplified purina one beyond. learn more about these wholesome ingredients at purinaone.com
5:43am
5:44am
so i think the euphe mimpb sm for what justified happened is technology difficulties. we'll get to what i was starting to talk about in the next hour. in the meantime we'll keep going with the show. we had been talking about three supposed scandals that besieged the obama administration this week. the one that seems the most problematic and most directly connected to the white house is the justice department seizure of two months worth of phone lotion from journalists at the
5:45am
soeshd press. the this is part of a pattern. no administration in recent history has investigated leaks and prosecuted government whistle blowers as the obama administration has. so far under president obama there's six indictments of be suspected leakers. it has paid political dividends by taking away a historic advantage from republicans. but there's civil liberties concerns and loyalty to a democratic president. obama defended his administration's records on leaks and national security at a press conference on thursday. >> leaks related to national security can put people at risk.
5:46am
they can put men and women in uniform that i've sent into the battlefield at risk. i make no apologies and the american people don't expect me not be concerned about information that might compromise their position or bring them killed. >> i want to bring in shane. we were talking about this in the first part of the show, the term scandal in way really could apply to this ongoing story of aggressive tactics by this administration and by the administration before it, the bush administration towards government whistle blowers. we had six prosecutions of government leakers, six indictments of government leakers under obama and i want does seem to raise, to raise some questions that maybe are uncomfortable for the left because you want to defend the president, you want to defend the president in a week like this, and at the same time, wow, this is a continuation of what bush did in so many ways.
5:47am
maybe even an acceleration. >> it's also a demonstration of the very true fact when you give any institution power it rarely gives it back. there was a lot of enthusiasm among the american people if you look at the polls for the crack downs on civil liberties that happened during bush. so things like the patriot act that were stunning reversals on civil liberty, withdrawals of basic civil liberty rights happened during that time passed by congress. these warrants, sneak and peek warrants. if people thought those things would be given back because a democrat became president then they don't understand the way power works. once you give an institution that kind of power they will use it. this administration like every other doesn't like leaks, doesn't tolerate them and they have been very aggressive about it. >> obama's great switch is what happened when and he was senator in 2008 after criticizing the nsa surveillance, he decided to switch positions and sign off on
5:48am
a statute to allow the government to carry out that surveillance. it took surveillance off the table. you've seen from what he said there most of the media discussion about this issue has been about whether the ap actually threatened national security by publishing this story which the government new about before it was published. what most of the coverage hasn't touched on is the government doesn't need a warrant from a court to get your phone records, to get your banking records, to get your internet surfing record, to get even your stored emails. they can do this with a subpoena and because they don't need a warrant they use subpoenas much more than they ever go to work under those expanded surveillance authorities. >> you're getting at a point there which is this is a story that's been brewing for a long time. it's been relegated to sort of civil libertarians making noise. it's interesting to watch it
5:49am
this get folded in. you have voices first of all on the republican side primarily who really haven't cared about these issues before suddenly embracing this and you have voices in the media amplifying it. i don't know. is that in a way it's a good thing this was folded into a fake scandal week and gives attention to something that's deserves attention? >> i was about to say that. the fact that republicans have this to be outraged about is more likely there's scrutiny of it. there's partisan advantage attached. so republicans will try to get that partisan advantage. for those of us who care about civil liberties this is great news. now it's a political football. because it's a political football both side will be trying to get their own advantage and that might mean actual action taken on sort of bringing the government away from the powers its claimed for the last ten years. >> might disagree with that because i don't think the republicans for a minute are going to give any ground on these issues that are allegedly
5:50am
related to national security. and i also think that there's not a good understanding of the importance of this issue either in media circles in general, or in the wider public. the free press goes to the heart of what democracy is supposed to be about. i want has to do with the free flow of information and if you have -- if voters are not well informed about the issues, then democracy loses all of its meaning because it's an ignorant vote that is cast and what this is really about is intimidation. you indict people and you scene people to prison if you can and what that is it send as chill out there and nobody wants to talk to reporters about the sensitive issues any more and it has been very effective. there's a chill in washington and people are more reluctant than ever to talk about national security issues. >> where i wonder does it come
5:51am
from -- we can talk about -- joy makes the point you give any administration power it's not going to want to give it back. we can assume that. is there a particular concern or sensitivity on the part of the obama administration because this whole idea we alluded to in the beginning where historically republicans had advantage on security, democrats felt defensive. why they nominated john kerry up. i wonder if there's at some level a political calculation that's guide this on the democratic side within this administration that politically it's safer to err on the side of stifling leaks because -- >> if you look at the national security construct of this administration they've done a lot of things that triangulated against the republicans. this is the administration that brought in bin laden. they brought in petraeus before he fell from grace. they co-opted a lot of the republican themes and not having major breakdowns other than
5:52am
benghazi which, you know, is questionable whether it's a break down again. that's been one of the hall marks of the administration. if you remember, the public back, i think it was the "new york times" exposed the u.s. was operating black sights around the world. the american people didn't express outrage at the black sights but they expressed outrage at the press. the press was the bad guy for endangering national security. american people won't be mad at the administration forgoing after the leaks they will be mad at the ap for exposing the story. at the same time republicans who were demanding that the white house find the leaker, they were coming down and saying the white house is weak for not finding a leaker is in a awkward position now. republicans are for the kind of surveillance society that was set up under bush. they voted for it. they pushed it.
5:53am
they are not going to say let's dismantle it. >> republicans were pushing the issue of outrage about the leaks to start with. they were going crazy. the administration has to do something to stop the leaks. i don't want to let the obama administration off the hook. they've gone in this direction hook, line and sinker. they didn't need a lot of pushing. >> another group is on the hook as well and that's congress. in the past times of presidential overreach i'm thinking after the civil war when radical core republicans went after andrew johnson, after congress pushed back against wilson, you have a congress that's sort of like views its institutional prerogatives quite jealously and one of those is national security. congress has a role in national security. it's abdicated it and for a variety of reasons. partly because of partisanship. a lot of lawmakers see themselves as demg and republicans and not as a congressman. but for whatever reason congress
5:54am
for decades has been uninterested in reining back the white house on this. so you have, you know, presidents in particular obama who is trying to avoid political damage. you have a congress that just could care less. combination of those two things will just be a progression of power grabs. >> two more to that list of people to blame. telecom companies and media itself. telecom industry is so heavily regulated, dependent on governme government aid. you hardly ever see them challenged. only one telecom company stood up to the widely nsa program. the phone companies are in on this. they have every incentive to cooperate with the government. there's a sense, i feel like of chickens coming home to roost.
5:55am
we see gullibility whether any of this threatens. we see julian assange being portrayed. or whether guantanamo lawyers pose a threat to national security. >> i want to put up on the screen, there's an interesting episode that played out in the middle of the week. it's a group called message matters. this is affiliated with media matters who i have heard of. they released in the middle of the week basically talking points. they were talking points for democrats for people on the left to go on the air and defend the idea of going after the ap, the doj going after the ap. you can see some of the talking points up on the screens. if you go on tv this is what you should say. what was interesting to me, there was a good point. this caused a lot of media
5:56am
outrage how can the left be ignoring civil liberty concerns. but the point was made nobody wanted the talking points. did you actually -- i didn't see anybody or hear anybody on the left on the air this week saying any of this stuff. it was interesting to watch that. >> the left is disorganized. i've never known the left to be that organized. also there's this ambivalence among the media about the idea if you're reporting something that really could outsource, apparently there were cia agents who had to move their families as a result of this coming out. there really is a true danger of exposing information that could get somebody killed. let's keep it real. i think a lot of media is ambivalent about that. that's why you have organizations including the associated press go to the administration, warn them they are doing the story and hold the story which the ap did in this case for a certain amount of time. you have major media out lets
5:57am
doing the same thing. in the zeal to get out information reporters don't want to be responsible for getting somebody killed or threatening national security. >> you raised an issue i want to get into. the responsibility of journalists to readers and the public and the responsibility not compromise national security. it gets to a proposal the administration got behind this week in response to that and we'll talk about that after this. oh, he's a fighter alright. since aflac is helping with his expenses while he can't work, he can focus on his recovery.
5:58am
he doesn't have to worry so much about his mortgage, groceries, or even gas bills. kick! kick... feel it! feel it! feel it! nice work! ♪ you got it! you got it! yes! aflac's gonna help take care of his expenses. and us...we're gonna get him back in fighting shape. ♪ [ male announcer ] see what's happening behind the scenes at ducktherapy.com. [ male announcer ] see what's happening behind the scenes help the gulf recover, andnt to learn from what happenedg goals: so we could be a better, safer energy company. i've been with bp for 24 years. i was part of the team that helped deliver on our commitments to the gulf - and i can tell you, safety is at the heart of everything we do. we've added cutting-edge safety equipment and technology, like a new deepwater well cap and a state-of-the-art monitoring center, where experts watch over all our drilling activity, twenty-four-seven. and we're sharing what we've learned, so we can all produce energy more safely. safety is a vital part of bp's commitment to america -
5:59am
and to the nearly 250,000 people who work with us here. we invest more in the u.s. than anywhere else in the world. over fifty-five billion dollars here in the last five years - making bp america's largest energy investor. our commitment has never been stronger. bjorn earns unlimited rewards for his small business. take these bags to room 12 please. [ garth ] bjorn's small business earns double miles on every purchase every day. produce delivery. [ bjorn ] just put it on my spark card. [ garth ] why settle for less? ahh, oh! [ garth ] great businesses deserve unlimited rewards. here's your wake up call. [ male announcer ] get the spark business card from capital one and earn unlimited rewards. choose double miles or 2% cash back on every purchase every day. what's in your wallet? [ crows ] now where's the snooze button? [ agent smith ] i've found software that intrigues me.
6:00am
it appears it's an agent of good. ♪ [ agent smith ] ge software connects patients to nurses to the right machines while dramatically reducing waiting time. [ telephone ringing ] now a waiting room is just a room. [ static warbles ] hello from new york, i'm corn. with joy reid, with shane, bob herbert, and janelle bowie. we're talking about the ap, the doj story, and i'm sort of interested in first of all why the administration has felt such
6:01am
pressure to prosecute so aggressively all these leak cases and the administration seemed to shift its posture. we had news coming out that in response to this "the shield" law, proposed shield law would be introduced to protect reporters, would be reintroduced in the house. we have a little sound here. i want to play, this is john conyers a democrat from the house responding to this and talking about reintroducing "the shield" law. >> i'm troubled by the notion that our government would pursue such a broad array of media phone records over such a long period of time. at the same time i know also that the attorney general himself has recused himself from the investigation and we'll hear more about that. policy questions on this topic
6:02am
are fair and i want you to know that i intend to reintroduce the free flow of information which passed the house floor with overwhelming support bipartisan in both the 110th and 111th congress. and we hope to do so with the continued support of members of this committee on the other side of the aisle. >> so, there was the proposed shield law that the idea was to prevent jail time from being used as a threat to get report towers reveal source, to make it much more difficult for prosecutors to go after sources from reporters they have to get some sort of court approval to begin the subpoena process. also, those in the sort of compromise that nearly made it through last time and the whole wikileaks happened a couple of years ago, but in the compromise that made its way through at
6:03am
that point there was a pretty broad carve out at the administration's insistence for national security concerns. basically allowing the administration to say well we like "the shield" law but in this case we decided it doesn't apply. it sounds that's the basic language that's reintroduced here. it raises the question is this window dressing, is this administration trying to look like it's responding to something or is this shield law worth something. >> it's called hypocrisy. it gets to this issue you were suggesting or asking the question of whether the obama administration has been pushed into this, the democrats have to be tough on national security and stuff. it seems to me this something that the president believes in. that when he looks at the calculus of the free flow of information, free press on one hand and what he perceives as national security matters on the other, he's going to come down on national security and part of the problem is they always say, the government officials always say lives are at risk here, terrible things will happen if
6:04am
this information gets out and that i can't think of an example where that was ever the case. they would have said that about the pentagon papers, you know, would we have been a better society if daniel ellsberg had gone to jail. there's all kind of scandals that are out there, waiting to be reported on. so, you know, i can't give the administration a pass on this. >> the question, it isn't true there's never instances -- >> didn't say there's never, i'm saying there are very few instances that any one can think of where the stories were reported because you made the case that responsible media outlets very often, i think, most often try not to irresponsible, they work with the administration and frequently hold, withhold stories that in fact will endanger lives. >> the question would be under a shield law if a journalist were to find out a cia operation
6:05am
would take place in kandahar on this date at this time we knew that american troops were headed in that direction would the media then be in their rights because of a public right to know to report on that? would they have been within the rights to find out about the osama bin laden raid in advance to report interest potentially disrupting it and ruin it, potentially expose the identity of the s.e.a.l.s. there's a line. it isn't impossible to endanger lives by reporting a story. >> what government would say -- >> we don't even know is that you can't report on those stories even after the fact. in other words, if you had the raid and the raid went badly and civilians were killed, for example, they could just put a top secret clamp on it and say you go to jail if you find out about this and report on it. >> in this particular case with the ap and yemen and the story, i don't think we've established
6:06am
exactly what the, you know, critical national security information was that the ap was endangering exposing. i heard different versions. part of it gets to having a double agent that provide critical information who is trying to leave yemen and it's critical the story not come out until they are sure the agent has left and ensure future cooperation from other potential sources they can protect their identity. it does -- i'm not coming down either way. >> who is trying to leak those stories? they are going after the leakers. they want to intimidate the people who are talking to the reporters. who is leaking the story saying a double agent is trying to get out of yemen? >> give you and example of one. >> to joy's point, if any responsible journalist got that story why would the reporter go with it. >> there are examples. when your talking points game up
6:07am
the valerie plame situation came out. that was a politically deliberate leak of a cia covert operative that did endanger lives. when you have a politically driven leak where you have an administration that says i'll punish joe wilson by leaking his wife's name do we want prosecution for the leaker in that case. it's a very nuanced question. >> what they didn't want in the media was the fact on the one year anniversary of the bin laden killing there's a retaliatory attack planned. it was not designed to capture bin laden to have had some negative consequences for national security. look, again this, is the big story we're hearing about in the media whether or not the ap threatened national security by publishing a story the government knew was coming out. we may never know the answer to that. this was designed to intimidate.
6:08am
they were looking at seven journalists but got phone records to iv different lines in four bureaus. there's these guidelines that are supposed to be in place to limit the practice of using these subpoenas to go after phone records of journalists. put in place after the watergate era in 1980. one of the aspects they ignored they are to negotiate and inform you ahead of time if they are going after your phone records. if they had done that here, the ap could have gone to a court and asked the court to overturn this notion that phone record, records of who you've called or where you've gone on the internet or emails are different than the contents of your phone calls. >> we should put out this administration and every administration is not, you know, averse to when it's in their advantage to provide information -- >> to leak on its own. >> think of the aftermath of the bin laden raid this is something
6:09am
the administration wants to have everybody know about. the government sometimes likes it. >> you would think that capacity might be something we want to keep secret. this is a great secret. this ap story we want to use this as a vehicle for intimidating future government sources. >> you do -- every administration it's in their interest to control information and use the press as an adjunct to their own communications department. it's what they all want to do. congress has a role. i wish we had a congress that is functional. they have an oversight responsibility where they can rein back some of the patriot act provisions. and to surveil whether it's the press or ordinary public but they won't do it because you have a congress that's only functioning as a campaign function constantly. >> at the same time, though, while we don't have a congress that doesn't do oversight we have a president that said he
6:10am
cared about civil liberties and transparency. it's perfectly reasonable to say what's going on. like you campaign on these things, you promise to give us transparent administration in history. you promised those of us who were exhausted by the parade of bush violations of privacy that you would be different and you aren't. so why not? >> let's add the courts to that too. we've been litigating the issue whether the nsa surveillance program has been legal and the courts said you don't have standing to set foot in court to challenge that if you don't have proof that you were the target. the time has long passed for the supreme court to overturn the third-party doctrine. >> do you think this particular supreme court -- the supreme court is not going to do that. >> they might. look at the gps case opinions and you'll see a lot of discomfort with this idea of the third-party doctrine especially
6:11am
injustice sotomayor's opinion. there's hopeful signs there. >> there you go. the john roberts court is the great hope for civil liberties. i want to thank joy reid, shane, bob herbert and janelle bowie. we'll try this one more time with the republican obsession with benghazi and what it's really about. that's next hopefully. you hurt my feelings, todd. i did? when visa signature asked everybody what upgraded experiences really mattered... you suggested luxury car service instead of "strength training with patrick willis." come on todd! flap them chicken wings. [ grunts ] well, i travel a lot and umm... [ male announcer ] at visa signature, every upgraded experience comes from listening to our cardholders.
6:12am
visa signature. your idea of what a card should be. i had eno[ designer ]ng enough of just covering up my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. i decided enough is enough. ♪ [ spa lady ] i started enbrel. it's clinically proven to provide clearer skin. [ rv guy ] enbrel may not work for everyone -- and may not clear you completely, but for many, it gets skin clearer fast, within 2 months, and keeps it clearer through 6 months. [ male announcer ] enbrel may lower your ability to fight infections. serious, sometimes fatal events, including infections, tuberculosis, lymphoma, other cancers, nervous system and blood disorders, and allergic reactions have occurred. before starting enbrel, your doctor should test you for tuberculosis and discuss whether you've been to a region where certain fungal infections are common. you should not start enbrel if you have an infection like the flu. tell your doctor if you're prone to infections, have cuts or sores, have had hepatitis b, have been treated for heart failure, or if you have symptoms such as persistent fever, bruising, bleeding, or paleness.
6:13am
if you've had enough, ask your dermatologist about enbrel.
6:14am
i think we feel phoney if i read through that elaborate introthat i started the last time. i'm old enough to remember when the right kind of liked barack obama and when conservatives treated hillary clinton the way they now treat obama. it is a story that begins in 1992. republican party controlled the white house for 12 years. two terms of reagan and one of
6:15am
bush sr. that 12 year run was in grave danger. economy was in rough shape. bush's approval rating was sinking. bill clinton was ahead in polls. republicans for four days at their convention bashed clinton. it's what parties do at conventions. except then went further. it wasn't just bill clinton they attacked or his running mate or his party they also attacked his wife. >> what does hilary believe? well hilary believes that 12-year-olds should have the right to sue their parents. and hilary has compared marriage and the family as institutions to slavery and life on an indian reservation. this, my friends, this is
6:16am
radical feminism. >> this was a major republican theme in 1992. hillary clinton as the radical anti-family feminist lawyer and kept up after bill clinton won the election for most of the 1990s hard to tell which clinton the right despised more. sometimes it was bill like when north carolina senator jesse helms suggested the president better have a body guard if he visited his state. or when robert dornen a republican congressman from california said of bill clinton quote the thought makes me sick to have this s.o.b. except he didn't say s.o.b. of low character commanding this country. other times it was hilary who bothered the right more when william sapphire wrote in 1996 americans of all political persuasions are coming to the sad realization our first lady is a congenital liar. there was a sort of backward working logic that prevailed on the right in the 1990s.
6:17am
the clintons have to be devious and corrupt. if we look hard enough we'll find the proof. we got travelgate, and kenneth starr and suing begs that the president and his wife were involved in drug-running and murder. bill clinton was impeached. you remember it all. there were a lot of reasons why this happened and, yes, bill clinton did bring some of it on himself. he brought plenty of it on himself. the root of that ain't clinton hysteria is simple. almost by definition a democratic administration is illegitimate. it must be resisted. it's how they treated jfk in the 1960 and it's what happened to bill and hilary in the 1990s and kept happening to them after they left the white house. ? why? everybody knew they would try to get back to the white house. we got for example the right trying to pin 9/11 on bill clinton. >> do you think you did enough,
6:18am
sir? >> no. but at least i tried. that's a difference in me and some including all of the right-wingers that are attacking me now. they ridicule for me to try. they had eight months to try. they did not try. i tried. >> that was in the fall of 2006. circle that date because something funny happened not long after that. after the 2006 mid-term hilary jumped into the 2008 race and so did barack obama. conventional wisdom was clinton would win easily. she had the money, machine, name. hilary was the inevitable democratic nominee. at the same time and this is what's so easy to forget obama had a very different role in the right's narrative. he was the well become reformer who was about to get plowed over by the ruthless clinton machine. she treated him sympathetically. until obama started winning and
6:19am
it became clear he and not hilary would be the face of the democratic party in 2008. it was in the right's interest to paint him as the dangerous radical. it happened very fast. this melting away of 16 years of anti-clinton charactering. you can almost pinpoint the moment. here's pat buchanan. he's rediscovering her in 2008 as a working class icon. >> she ran a terrific examine as frank rich said. she reinvented herself as the love child of joe hill and norma rae. she ran a wonderful examine and she's a sentimental favorite. >> that's after she post ad win inn the pennsylvania primary. the race was over at that point. obama was safely ahead in delegates. new characters on the right stuck from that point forward obama would be the bad democrat and hilary would be the good
6:20am
democrat. if only obama could emulate hick we wouldn't be in so much trouble. all at once conservatives stopped attacking hilary and her husband and started praising her sometimes. the result look at her favorable rating. it's steady for years and then flight you can see on that right there in the spring of 2008 it rockets up and stays there. that's where it still is which is a problem for the right because it puts hilary in great shape for 2016. the benghazi scandal is a way for the right to attack an administration it doesn't like but a way to turn back the lock to reintroduce the conservative base to the joys of clinton bashing. if you live long enough you'll see everything twice. another story that should be a much bigger scandal. that's next.
6:21am
meet the 5-passenger ford c-mc-max one. c-max two. that's a super fuel- efficient hybrid for me. and a long range plug-in hybrid for you. now, let's review. introducing the ford c-max hybrid and the ford c-max energi plug-in hybrid. say hi to the c-max hybrids.
6:22am
if yand you're talking toevere rheuyour rheumatologistike me, about trying or adding a biologic. this is humira, adalimumab. this is humira working to help relieve my pain. this is humira helping me through the twists and turns. this is humira helping to protect my joints from further damage. doctors have been prescribing humira for over ten years. humira works by targeting and helping to block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to ra symptoms. for many adults, humira is proven to help relieve pain and stop further joint damage. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal events, such as infections, lymphoma, or other types of cancer, have happened. blood, liver and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure have occurred. before starting humira , your doctor should test you for tb.
6:23am
ask your doctor if you live in or have been to a region where certain fungal infections are common. tell your doctor if you have had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have symptoms such as fever, fatigue, cough, or sores. you should not start humira if you have any kind of infection. ask your doctor if humira can work for you. this is humira at work. bjorn earns unlimited rewards for his small business. take these bags to room 12 please. [ garth ] bjorn's small business earns double miles on every purchase every day. produce delivery. [ bjorn ] just put it on my spark card. [ garth ] why settle for less? ahh, oh! [ garth ] great businesses deserve unlimited rewards. here's your wake up call. [ male announcer ] get the spark business card from capital one and earn unlimited rewards. choose double miles or 2% cash back on every purchase every day. what's in your wallet? [ crows ] now where's the snooze button? by the way there's another
6:24am
story brewing out there that might deserve the label scandal but nobody is calling it that at least not yet. has to do with sexual assault in the military and it's a story that does partly involve president obama. i'll explain that in a minute. but first just consider what we've learned in the last few days. on wednesday an army lieutenant colonel in charge of the sexual harassment and assault program at fort campbell, kentucky was arrested for violating an order of protection and stalking against his ex-wife. day before that a coordinator for the sexual assault program in fort hood, texas is under investigation for sexual assault and forced prostitution. then there was last week when the chief of the air force sexual assault prevention and response branch was charged with sexual assault of a woman in a parking lot in virginia. these incidents follow a high-profile case from february in which an air force commander used his authority to nullify a military jury sexual assault conviction even though his own legal counsel advised him to let
6:25am
the verdict to stand. he had reasonable doubt about the defendant's guilt. president obama comes in here. advocates for sexual assault victims are calling on the president to dismiss franklin but so far obama has taken no action. obama's nominee for vice commander of the air force space command also nullified a sexual assault conviction just months ago. senator mccaskill has put a hold on her nomination but no action from the administration. responding to what could be the called of scandal of sexual assault in the military, there was a bipartisan group presenting a bill to prevent commanders from mishandling sexual assault cases in their ranks. >> today we're standing ainu nighted front with new legislation that will fundamentally remove the decision-making from the chain of command and gives that discretion to an experienced military prosecutor.
6:26am
where it belongs. under our bill serious crime punishable by more than a erof confinement would be investigated and producted by the jag core. experts trained on this know how to take cases to trial. >> hours later president obama met with secretary of defense chuck hagel and other military lead towers discuss the matter. afterward talked about the importance of accountability. >> even though i think there's a level of concern ain't that's appropriate we haven't actually been able to ensure that our men and women in uniform are not experiencing this and if they do experience it that there's serious accountability. so, what i've done is i've asked secretary of defense hagel and marty dempsey to help lead a process to continue to get at this. that starts with accountability. and that means that at every
6:27am
level. >> i want to bring in patricia ireland former president of national organization for women, goldie taylor, jessica hensman. jessica became involved with her group after she was assaulted while enlisted. thank you all for being here. i want to put one graph up to set this up. a statistic that's gotten a lot of play in the last couple of weeks but i want to put this up. this is looking at the problem of sexual assault in the military. 2012 the total number estimated from a recent pentagon report the total number estimated is 26,000 assaults taking place in the military in the year 2012. of those only 3374 actually reported. further reduce that to 238 convicted. and that 26,000 number is up kind of considerably from a year
6:28am
before. if you go back over a decade it fluctuates. we've been near 30,000 before. this is a long standing problem. i think there's a lot of different ways to look at it. to me there's two issues. one the culture of the military, one is specifically to the justices in the military. maybe i'm curious to start with the culture of the military. is there something particular about the military that feeds this, that encourages this? >> i think there is. i think part of the problem lies in the fact that there are very few women in the military, only 15% of the military is female and while sexual assault in the military affects actually more men than women whenever you have so few women in an institution you're likely to see more sex discrimination, more sexual harassment and more condoning of sexual assault. we know that from studying this on the outside. so the military has to do several things all at once. i want has to attack this problem by turning to folks like us who know what it's like on the inside but also have the sense of what a real criminal
6:29am
justice system should look like. but also by making sure more women are entering the military, are being recruited and being retained. you know, i was lost to this problem because the marine corps didn't treat this right. certainly jessica was and many of our peers. they are facing a recruitment challenge as well. if this story continues and i want very likely well women won't want to serve and men won't either when they realize men are being attacked on the inside as well. >> chuck had a bell yesterday or at some point specifically talked about drinking, the problem of drinking, drinking is a significant factor. i also heard a number of people in the military talk about that there seems to be what they see as a culture of disrespect towards women in the military and in the broader culture and sort of comes in the military whether through video games or movies, the message there
6:30am
percolating in the culture that get into the military and then, you know, you have men being fed these messages and around women who until recently couldn't serve in combat roles so there was this unequal situation to begin with. goldie, how do you make sense of it? >> the pathologies don't check themselves at the door when you get to camp. so what you present is what society you've been drawn from. the military, however, known for as well trained as we are, you know to become a fighting machine, it does not address appropriately some of those maladies that we bring forth. in fact it reinforces many of them especially when we talk abo about the roles men and women play. in the military those roles are supposed to be broken down because we're one fighting force when they are not. not until recently have we been able to serve in combat roles.
6:31am
that has been a major part of why women are seen as second or third class citizen, you know, in the military. when i served, i don't believe that this is a new problem, frankly just because what i saw 26 years ago when i enlisted. women were, you know, yes there is the issue of alcohol and sometimes under age drinking and all those things are against the law. but women are placed in a situation where they are responsible for what the men are doing and you can see it in the training videos, you can see it in the literature that they are held responsible for what happens to them. i've also seen some information where it says maybe women should take more advantage of the base resources available to them. she will tell you when she talks about her testimony, that you can't take advantage of it because none of it is anonymous. if i go to see a base they are foift ta
6:32am
-- therapist about what happened to me that information is available to the base commander. yes it's a cultural issue. are we at a point where we'll break it down once and for all. i'm not sure about that. >> jessica, goldie alluded to it you have horrible real world experience tii want to hear wha you came up against. we'll do that after this break. with the seeds getting under my denture. super poligrip free -- it creates a seal of the dentures in my mouth. even well-fitting dentures let in food particles. super poligrip is zinc free. with just a few dabs, it's clinically proven to seal out more food particles so you're more comfortable and confident while you eat. super poligrip free made the kiwi an enjoyable experience. [ charlie ] try zinc free super poligrip. [ harrison ] is there anything you would not do for your family?
6:33am
punch it. ♪ [ male announcer ] back here on earth, your family is your crew. you would do everything in your power to protect them. that's why there's lifelock. and introducing lifelock junior. call 1-800-lifelock or visit lifelock.com/trek today and see star trek: into darkness, in theatres may 17th. score planner tool with these cool sliders. this one lets us know what happens if someone checks our credit. oh. this one lets us know what happens if we pay off our loans.
6:34am
yeah. what's this one do? i dunno. ♪every rose has it's thorn ♪just like every night has it's dawn♪ score planner is free to everyone. free score applies with enrollment in freecreditscore.com bret michaels slider still in beta. want to save on electricity? don't use it. live like they did long ago. or just turn off the lights when you leave a room. you can conserve energy wisely. the more you know.
6:35am
so jessica, i really would love to hear your story and what lessons maybe in terms of reforming the military we can find in your story. >> first of all, i would like to say it's ridiculous for general walsh to say people are raped because they are drunk. that's accusing and blaming the victim and saying that a hook up culture is saying women are coming into the military to hook up with men which is very false. women need to be considered as soldiers. it's 2013. it's time women are given their place in the military and treated equally as men.
6:36am
what happened to me i was a jet mechanics on f-15s. i was one of three females in my squadron. i was walked to my room using the buddy system like the military, you know, tells us to do. my rapist who i worked with broke in through my bathroom, raped me and while i was getting a rape kit the female next door reported it which opened the investigation. right out of coming out of the hospital i was taken to an investigator for eight hours and the investigation continued for a year. well jag recommended it go through an article 32 hearing. the court date was set. two days before the court hearing there was a change of command. the commander decided that he did not act like a gentleman but there wasn't reason to prosecute. this commander had no legal background or education. i couldn't take to it civilian court because it was a military jurisdiction. i called the base inspector general. they said they were too busy to handle this case. a few months later i was discharged having ptsd.
6:37am
i feel it was biased. in the middle of my investigation my rapist got award saying he was the top exemplary airman. i tried to stand but couldn't keep my career even though i was put in counselling with combat veterans who had ptsd and allowed to continue their career because i was raped i had to lose my career. >> your story gets to an issue that's part of the political debate in washington. we talked about the bill that's being introduced, you mentioned it there. it's not a legal background a commanding officer right now who makes the decision should this be prosecuted, should this go to trial and who has the power after a conviction as we saw in that intro to invalidate these convictions. i want seems if there's a role for the political system to step in this is it. >> you hit on it. on the one hand the commanding officer decided what cases get
6:38am
prosecuted. on the other hand they can nullify a jury verdict. and so we have senator gillibrand's bill that would take those serious crimes out of the commander's authority and give them to experienced military prosecutors. we have claire mccaskill's bill that would prohibit a commander to overturn a jury verdict. we have another bill that susan collins put in that would remove sexual offenders from the military. that combination of political approaches, i think, will have a great deal of effect. it is the case that we have to have the political will. this is not just a problem in the military. i think that goldie made a very important point that we see all of the problems from the culture at large brought into the military. but i think it's very interesting that the women in the senate and in the house, jackie spears in the house is co-sponsoring the bill to remove
6:39am
the authority -- put the authority with prosecutors to decide what cases to take forward, but that it is the women who are taking the lead here and like others we need to have more leadership in the military that can't happen as long as women were not considered 100% warriors. they were prohibited from the kinds of assignments in combat that would enable it home to have a full career. so there's lots that the political community has to do, needs to do, and that's where some of the solutions have to come. >> and you mentioned claire mccaskill. i want to talk specifically about what she's trying to now not just with the legislation but a hold she placed on a nomination and i want to talk about that after this. you can't create the future... by clinging to the past. and with that: you're history. instead of looking behind... delta is looking beyond. 80 thousand of us investing billions... in everything from the best experiences below...
6:40am
to the finest comforts above. we're not simply saluting history... we're making it. you will lose 3 sets of keys 4 cell phones
6:41am
7 socks and 6 weeks of sleep but one thing you don't want to lose is any more teeth. if you wear a partial, you are almost twice as likely to lose your supporting teeth. new poligrip and polident for partials 'seal and protect' helps minimize stress, which may damage supporting teeth, by stabilizing your partial. and 'clean and protect' kills odor-causing bacteria. care for your partial. help protect your natural teeth. care for your partial. so you can capture your receipts, ink for all business purchases. and manage them online with jot, the latest app from ink. so you can spend less time doing paperwork. and more time doing paperwork. ink from chase. so you can.
6:42am
diarrhea, gas, bloating? yes! one phillips' colon health probiotic cap each day helps defend against these digestive issues... with three strains of good bacteria. [ phillips' lady ] live the regular life. phillips'. >> patricia was mentioning the role of having more women in congress and the senate. i want to play a clip here by claire mccaskill. the key point is to remember she
6:43am
was running against todd aiken. claire mccaskill won the election and we alluded to this in the flow, susan helms was on track for a nomination. turn out she nullified a sexual assault allegation. >> this case, frankly, did not get out in the public domain until i discovered it through conversations with a lot of different prosecutors in the military. and then i said to my staff let's check and make sure she's not going through on a promotion and sure enough we found her name. we'll withheld her nomination for now and i've had an opportunity to visit with her and looking at the specifics of the case. it's a tough situation she's had an outstanding career but she did decide to overturn the decision of a jury she hand picked over, you know, whether or not there was sufficient evidence and who was telling the truth. frankly that's what we got to stop. >> just to raise two new issues.
6:44am
one is the political question will the obama administration go forward with this nomination. my reaction is, there's a general overturn the conviction and the general was a woman. >> to be successful, you know, in an organization, to rise to its highest ranks whether corporate or here in this building you need be table buy into that culture. clearly she bought into the durl that's most prevalent. it's important to note the uniform code of military justice was derived out of the revolutionary war. you didn't have courts or jails around so you had to police your own troops. so the idea that a general or any commanding officer with one more stripe than you i have absolute control and that was important during the revolution war and civil war. not so important today when we have a jag corps and other resources, you have a civilian court who can take over these issues in a meaningful way.
6:45am
for a commanding officer to have the ability to decide if there's going to be an investigation, to decide if there's going to be a conviction, to decide if there's going to be punishment, most of the cases where there is a conviction of sexual assault in the military, there's about 60 days in the brig and then you get a dishonorable discharge. sexual assault in the civilian world will get you 10 to 15. so in effect it's rewarded like the catholic church you move around from base to base. the women on the other hand is investigated, taken through sexual barriers and her career sended. so she's treated as if she is the perpetratoperpetrator. >> military leaders that condone this kind of behavior need to be held accountable. there's a female i know that i went to tech school with she's getting stationed at the because
6:46am
he's at now. would you want your sister, cousin, niece, friend, neighbor -- >> this was a guy who was convicted and his conviction was thrown out by his commanding officer. i think he's a good guy. >> because we later found out this good family man cussed out the military police on base because he burned a couch. he was seen peeping over a female stall. it was biassed that's problem. the military is such a simultaneous community. you live and work around the community. so they cannot be able to govern themselves lying this because the general that dismissed this case knew his father-in-law. he was actually stationed with colonel wilkerson. men are being raped more than women. it's not being talked about. it's easier to excuse. these are rapists. this is going on.
6:47am
people are losing their career because of this. this affects people's lives. but who wants these people to work in the vicinity of rapists and just passing, you know, programs is not working any more. like we found out this week three people that the military said can handle these cases they are the people in charge of dealing with rapes and sexual assault, they are raping people and at fort hood which is the largest army installation in the world, it's like a city down there, i've been to that base, that guy was actually coercing people into prostitution so are we dealing with sexual slavery here if you report that you're retaliated against until you're thrown up or stuck it up and keep getting assaulted and deal with it. >> the major piece of legislation would remove that power from a commanding officer but that's an issue, an open question whether that will get through because there's a lot of automatic deference on capitol hill and in politics to the military.
6:48am
i wish we had more time for that. i'm glad you came in. what do we know now that we didn't know last week? my answers after this. anything's possible, if you have the right tools. ryobi has over 50 products that work off of one 18 volt battery. and with new improved lithium and lithium plus batteries, you'll get a whole lot more done in less time. plus, they'll improve the performance of every 18 volt tool we've ever made. now that's getting more power for your money. ryobi one plus. the one system that delivers more. available only in one place. the home depot. right now, pick up a ryobi 18 volt lithium ion cordless trimmer for only $99.
6:49am
6:50am
6:51am
snchts in just a moment, what we know now that we didn't know last week. but first a story we did last sunday when minnesota was in the final state of passing marriage equality, capping off a two-year political battle. republicans in the state legislature had tried to ban gay narj marriage in the state constitution, but instead they put democrats in control of both house of the legislature. and an tuesday mark dayton signed marriage equality into law. so what do we know now that we didn't know last week? jason richwein resigned after the "washington post" dylan matthews discovered his dissertation. it was entitled i.q. immigration policy.
6:52am
he claimed the i.q. of immigrants was lower than the native population. this just after a study about the supposed cost of immigration reform. heritage has denounced his comments, but he says he doesn't apologize for what he wrote, only how he wrote it. they have already cost republicans at least one hispanic voter. in an e-mail published by the florida native. he revealed the comments and other anti-immigrant sentiment from republicans caused him to leave the party. he says in hopes that it mr. soon pass and be forgotten. we now know why ben jones, a former georgia congressman who may remember as cooter from the dukes of of hazard.
6:53am
he didn't appear at a fund-raiser for his old colleague. they invited jones and his band to play at the event he says he believes they are highly offensive and should not be displayed. he hit back on wednesday, saying rather than a serious discussion about the use of symbols and the context of symbols, the argument has been boiled down to something like this. we believe flag bad, racist. me good, not racist. we know telling a staffer to fold it four ways and put it where the sun doesn't shine. finally, we no know only 16% of americans have a favorable view of hip sters. in their bicycle riding, ironic
6:54am
t-shirt wearing ways. it also included questions like do you think pabst blue ribbon is a good beer? it's criticized for the leading questions and overall absurdity including from "up" producer. he says he doesn't consider himself a hip ster. he told us, quote, this is another post modern event to arbitrate social norms. i would read further into it but i scratched my nerdy biker glasses when i fell off my bike riding to my vegan food co-op. i want to find out what my guests know now that they didn't know when the week zban. >> the senator has filed a bill to make student loans require the same interest as the banks pay. i know that student loans pay over 6% interest. while banks are paying.
6:55am
what? less than 2. >> we know that the joint chiefs and the president are still not working to outside experts to fix this problem. we know that military officers are not in fallible. that they themselves engage in domestic violence, and battery and stalking and we need to if i can this problem from the outside in. >> what we know is prosecutions were vastly up after the scandal and the pendulum swung the other way. we know after this week we are going to see more prosecutions. and we know that we're going to keep this issue on the front burner. and i am the only three time patriot. >> i have no idea what that mean. >> i now now that we are taking
6:56am
this serious. this is a systemic problem. prosecutions. it's good to good to get the predators out. i urge congress and senate to really investigate, look at the statistics and realize that they need outside accountability. this is a week that drove it home to me. me thanks to patricia ireland. the servicewomen's action network. msnbc contributor goldie taylor and jessica with the group protect our defenders. thank you for joining us today for "up." we'll talk to the irs in bangladesh. and coming up next is melissa harris-perry. the business of politics is overshadowed by the personal. what could it be about president
6:57am
barack obama that makes republicans in washington obsessed with him as an individual opposed to his policies. and melissa harris-perry is coming up next. we'll see you here tomorrow morning at 8:00. thanks for getting up. c-max two. that's a super fuel- efficient hybrid for me. and a long range plug-in hybrid for you. now, let's review. introducing the ford c-max hybrid and the ford c-max energi plug-in hybrid. say hi to the c-max hybrids. plays a key role throughout our lives. one a day men's 50+ is a complete multivitamin designed for men's health concerns as we age. it has 7 antioxidants to support cell health. one a day men's 50+.
6:58am
[ male announcer ] we all have something neatly tucked away in the back of our mind. a secret hope. that thing we've always wanted to do. it's not about having dreams, it's about reaching them. ♪ an ally for real possibilities. aarp. find tools and direction at aarp.org/possibilities.
6:59am
and didn't know where to start. used a contractor before aarp. at angie's list, you'll find reviews on everything from home repair to healthcare written by people just like you. no company can pay to be on angie's list, so you can trust what you're reading. angie's list is like having thousands of close neighbors where i can go ask for personal recommendations. that's the idea. before you have any work done, check angie's list. from roofers to plumbers to dentists and more, angie's list -- reviews you can trust. i love you, angie. sorry, honey. [ female announcer ] stress sweat is different than ordinary sweat. it smells worse. get 4x the protection against stress sweat. introducing new secret clinical strength stress response scent. get 4x the protection against stress sweat. anbe a name and not a number?tor scottrade. ron: i'm never alone with scottrade. i can always call or stop by my local office. they're nearby and ready to help. so when i have questions, i can talk to someone who knows exactly how i trade.
7:00am
because i don't trade like everybody. i trade like me. that's why i'm with scottrade. announcer: scottrade- proud to be ranked "best overall client experience." this morning, my question. how do you feel about having the government read all of your e-mails? and this week brought more news of sexual assault in the military. plus 19 people were shot just blocks from my home. but first, this week there was only one word on everyone's lips. scandal. good morning. i'm melissa harris-perry. on thursday evening we found out some shocking new information about the political drama we've al b